|
To add even more insult, they change the phrase you are trying to learn at the next interval. To make matters worse, often they pronounced words two different ways, even when used in exactly the same way. Dr. Unfortunately what they got were a bunch of "yes people" who didn't want to offend the developers.
This is a flawed method of teaching that used by those who don't have any idea on how to teach. The course then immediately continues to use the wrong form as taught in French 1 for about another 10 lessons.The course teaches practically no grammar. They think the best way to solvea difficult problem is to immediately go to work on a second difficult problem, followed by a third one, and then then go back to the first one. Yet Pimsleur expects you to read a foreign language without ever having heard the words. So you think, okay by lesson 9 I would have got the proper sounds down and can start learning how to read them. Then to top it off, at the end of the course they have a reading assignment in which they say "here are some phrases you will find useful in traveling, shopping, dining, etc. Plus, the entire course is giving you words and phrases in English and telling you how to say them in French.
For example, they explain that a gratuity is usually included in the bill for dining but that you can show your appreciation to your server by leaving a tip, that the menu posted on the door or window of a restaurant only includes the fixed price items and for the complete menu you have to ask for something else, or that some chateau was home to Louie the 14th. What you actually get is no recollection of the word or a very vague one. When you come back, more often than not, the solution will suddenly come to you. By grammar I don't mean which word is a verb, which is a noun, or what is a pronoun. Without any explanation, this results in mass confusion and the requirement of 2 to 5 hours of study for two days per lesson, not to learn, but to memorize everything.Now you may think that adding grammar would make the lessons longer.
Now not only have you wasted 6 months that could have been used at practice and making you better, you have developed a bad habit that will be hard to break, Plus, you will now question everything else taught to you by the teacher. So much for no repetition. Another example is "parce que" which they pronounce sometimes as two syllables and sometimes as three. However, the course wastes these limited amount of words on quite a few words you will rarely if ever use. The theory is that this somehow shocks the student and makes an impression of how not to do something. This becomes apparent in later lessons when you are to use a word or phrase from an earlier lesson and you won't remember it. Instead, phrases are given including small words and you are supposed to just figure them out. For example, when the word "est" which means "is", is followed by a word that starts with a vowel, the "t" is pronounced.
As such, I am not trying to get a refund nor do I have an axe to grind with the company that produces it. First let me say I did not buy this course. The problem is the words in the reading are not words you have learned. Sometimes the speakers would pronounce it and sometimes they wouldn't, even within the same lesson. So instead of learning or knowing the words and phrases, you are memorizing them. You will forget 70-80% of what you learned2.
No kidding. However, some are not even taught in the course. Even Pimsleur's ownmarketing materials state that there are some underdeveloped countries where it is not unusual to find people who can speak and understand 6 languages but they don't know how to read or write them. When they do this, they don't simply add a word, they usually do something that changes the word order so you are basically getting an interval of a completely new phrase instead of the one you are supposed to be recalling. This method involves the ridiculous and moronic theory that a student will learn more, better, and faster, by first being taught the wrong way to do something. While this might seem simple enough on the surface, you are losing any reinforcement that you would get if the course simply went over them. Sure the cities and countries are useful if visiting them, but to put them ahead of more functional words in a course that only teaches 500 words is absurd.
You will have memorized a few phrases and forgotten far more then you remember.This is one of the worse courses I have come across. Why is it then that Pimsleur takes the time to explain cultural things that have nothing to do with language learning. This course only uses native speakers sparsely. It could have been 1000 times better if it had been done right. Two syllable words are broken down and said slowly. Gee, had they told me at the beginning, I would have really learned what the instruction meant.6. If you can get the courses for $20 per level or $60 for all three levels on Ebay, it might be worth considering. The worst is the male speaker's pronunciation of the the one syllable word "Quand" which means "when".
3, 4, and 5 syllable words aren't. Every time the speaker breaks down the word "mademoiselle:", he says it as "mad moiselle", but every time he says it normally it is pronounced as "man moiselle". This is how interval recall is supposed to work. I obtained it from my public library. They should have continued teaching the new words and vocabulary individually and constructed sentences with them later.8. Quite a contradiction don't you think.
They feel you should learn as a child does by hearing. Pimsleur doesn't start the readings until Lesson 9. The very few times Pimsluer does mention grammar, I found it very helpful in helping remember what I was learning. Time that would have been much more productive in teaching the correct way. The end result, you have memorized rather than learned the material. By French 3 you are apparently expected to have magically turned into an expert in French because you are now taught new words or multiple new words in phrases or sentences without learning the individual words first. The more complicate a phrase is the faster the speaker will say it andoften times, only once.
Either is correct, but without explaining that, the student is needlessly wasting time trying to figure out the correct usage or pattern when there is none. While Pimsleur is correct in that children learn to speak and understand without grammar, they are wasting a vast resource of the intelligence and knowledge of grammar that people who are using their course have, and which could be used to more quickly and easily learn a foreign language. Pimsleur says this is necessary so that you don't translate. If all the words were broken down, or if none were, you could have students who thought the course was the too slow to fast or the correct speed. Course wasn't tested. That is, when they break it down. Since Vous is always acceptable, the course should have only used that. It is really a shame with thiscourse.
I give it in order for others to use along with others in evaluating whether the course might be of use to them.To start, let me say that if you think you will spend just 30 minutes a day on this course for 3 months and get something out of it, you are sadly mistaken. It is in a lesson where they talk about a branch manager at a bank. The thing that Pimsleur, or the course developers, failed to grasp is that the intervals in between cannot also be filled with other new things you don't know. Once you are more advanced you could learn to use it.There are other errors through out the course for example, they tell you to say "branch manager". I have completed French 1, 2, and 3 and still don't know which is correct. Sometimes a word like "this" or "that" is replaced with something else or a variation that sounds different based on gender of a word that follows.
They are correct and that is another reason it fails so miserably. Useful information. It is as if they are trying to impress thelistener with how well they learned French (see #3 above).5. Thisis even more important because Primsleur also uses a principle of "confuse the student". What I am referring to is simple explanations of why things are the way they are. Anyway, rather than explaining the instruction in English and then getting you to follow it without translation simply by repeated use, all they do is get you to ignore or tune out the instruction and simply use repetion of the lesson to memorize the phrase that follows. Dumb.To give you and even better idea of how dumb the course developers are, take the reading booklets. For the readings, the word or phrase is not spoken with you repeating after it.
Now this in itself wouldn't be bad if the course was done right. Because this course does not use repetition, what the listener ends up doing is having to repeat the lesson or sections of the lessons over, and over, and over. Think about it. You are so busy flailing in new material that you can't absorb any of it.
However, the "Moron Principle" is taken even a step further with Pimsleur. Then between the intervals, familiar words or phrases should be used such as a review of past ones. This "Moron Principle" is clearly demonstrated in the first lesson of French 2. Since using tu often changes the other words in a sentence with it vs when vous is used, all it does is cause major confusion in the course. However, that's not even the worst part. How would you like to spend 6 months as a child learning how to multiply, only to be told thatyou are doing it wrong. that's it, now I remember."feeling when you heard it again.
As a beginner in French using a course with only about 500 words, do you think you need to learn the following words like, "Branch Manager", "the old harbor", and a bunch names of cities, countries, hotels, and universities. Opps, someone was asleep while doing the course and none of the testers caught this.The course requires a major overhaul to be of practical use in my opinion, Of course based on the claims of Pimsleur "speak a foreign language in 10 days", they aren't concerned with anything but making a buck. After having learned that some words have a disappearing S sound which is only pronounced when the word is followed by a vowel, you are told that this way of speaking French isn't used anymore. Just because someone is an expert in a subject doesn't make them a good teacher and this is the problem with this course.
They learn from hearing and seeing the actions associated with what they hear. What they fail to understand or don't want to acknowledge is that a child doesn't learn language from hearing. Then, once the student has this wrong method down, they are told it is wrong, and only then are they taught the correct way. Pimsleur should have stated at the beginning of the course thatmodern day spoken French is increasingly dropping this sound.
Often times the changing of one thing or word in the phrase will change the word order or cause addition sounds to be added. If people could learn a foreign language by hearing a word or sentence one time, then everyone would speak 100 languages. The internet is filled with messages from people saying they had to repeat the lessons 3 to 4 or more times before moving on. Of course, in reality, all it does is waste time developing bad habits that are extremely difficult to break. It is a shame as it does have some positive points of an upbeat and energetic instructor and good pronunciation, for the most part.
Giving foreign instructions without telling you what they mean. If they are so useful, why aren't they taught.The course also subscribes to what is known as the "Moron Principle" of teaching. The man and woman speakers are not natives as you can tell from the bad pronunciation.4. However when you have parts slow and parts fast, it is impossible for anyone to say the course is the right speed. I completed all three levels of this course in order to give it an fair try.
With Pimsleur they do the opposite. Rather than have you really learn a phrase, they will constantly change phrases while you are learning them. Using there logic, you can speak 5 languages in a day just by learning a couple words or a phrase of each language. Everyone knows that when you are getting nowhere in trying to solve a difficult problem, the best thing to do is step back, relax for awhile, or go for a walk. Instead they want you to say the word or phrase first and then listen how it is actually pronounced. One can easily speak and understand a lot more of language in one hour of listening to the first Michel Thomas French lesson then in 20 of Pimsleur. If the course were done correctly, you would recall it, or at the least get that "ah.
Rather than having you firmly know one thing before moving to a variation, they will throw a bunch of variations at you at the same time, or in very short order. You will not understand TV or radio, other than a word here and there. They are words and entire phrases you have never heard. In other words, a new word or phrase should be introduced.
Think about it, you only use tu with close friends and family. The reading continues this way with words and phrases you don't know and have never heard. Even then, you will keep making the same mistakes at the same place because of the flawed teaching method. If you aren't prepared to spend 2 to 5 hours per day and at least 2 days per lesson once you get past the first 10 lessons, don't even bother. Also, words that end in an "ay" which sound like the word "day", are pronounced as "y" in the word "happy". How unfortunate that an opportunity to begin learning how to read the words and phrases, that you are learning to speak and hear, is thrown out and replaced with something that sounds like a confusing mess of jibberish.
Then 25 lessons later they might tell you what a particular instruction means. Gee, if people could figure out what people are saying in a foreign language simply by listening, there would be no need for their course. Contrary to what you may think, the "moron" in this method refers to the teacher rather than the student. I had to refer to a dictionary many times. This clears the mind to absorb the new info. To not go over these small words or explain the variations resulted in constant confusion through out the entire course that I was never able to overcome.Sloppy pronunciation is another problem with this course.
Absolutely not.The course only teaches about 500 words. It combines stupidity with laziness. He constantly mispronounces it in two syllables as "comment" which means "how" and he doesn't even say that correctly because he pronounces the "t" sound at the end.Following are some other issues and what you can expect from the course.1. The intervals should be filled with review or reinforcement material instead of a continual stream of new material. How nice to be told that what you learned in French 1 isn't correct. If the course were tested, the students would have complained that the course went to slow with the breaking down of the 2 syllable words or two fast because the 3, 4, and 5 syllable words weren't broken down. The course states that you shouldn't use any other materials or consult a dictionary (apparently for fear you will realize how bad the Pimsleur course is) while doing the course.
As anyone with a 2nd grade education could tell you, this isn't going to work. The review that follows is simply my opinion. Most of the words in French do not sound anything like the way they are spelled when compared to English. In this course there is no consistency to these intervals,The course says it doesn't use repetition. For example, the idea is to repeat something at specific intervals which are supposed to cause the info to be stored in your long term memory.
Pimsleur claims these are "functional" words. Since Pimsleur is an audio only course, they are missing a huge chunk of the equation. Since French 1 and French 2 do such a poor job at teaching, you are no better at learning new phrases than you were before. They also teach the familiar form of vous which is tu. The idea behind interval recall is to give a word or phrase and repeat it at specific intervals. Who is honestly going to say "I like how the small easy words are broken down and repeated while the bigger words aren't." This would have been an easy way for the course developers to tell if the testers were being honest.
Pimsleur may have been a memory expert (which is not apparent in this course due the inconsistency of the repeat intervals) but neither he, nor the developers, have a clue when it comes to teaching. Sometime you will remember a word but not remember what it means.3. After stating this is the case particularly with pronouns, the speaker goes on to state "and from now on this coursewill use this correct form". Throughout the entire course I constantly struggled with small words like a, it, are, as, an, to, of, is it, it is, it's, etc. Instead, you are left to be puzzled and mystified as to what conditions determine when it is or is not pronounced, since they pronounce it differently on a completely random basis. Even then, at the end of this course you will not be able to hold a conversation. They will find plenty of frustration and discouragement in using it.7.
Otherwise I would not recommend this course unless you are trying to discourage someone from learning a foreign language. How about teaching me how to order a salad or a hamburger.The course, for the most part doesn't teach small words. Perhaps.
More useful than grammar tips or necessary to learn French. The longer and harder it takes you to memorize them, (something which happens a lot with this course) the faster and more permanently you will forget them.Another major flaw they make is to introduce several new words or phrases within a very short time frame, sometimes as many as 3 within 30 seconds. Gee, if you had close friends and family who spoke French, you wouldn't be using this course to learn it.
You will never again have a clear mind to pursue your studies with vigor and passion because you will always have a nagging doubt that what you are being taught is wrong. Let me be clear. Now you have to suffer for it.
At one of the recall intervals they ask you to say "bank manager" but give the French pronunciation for "branch manager".
The French III Comprehensive has made it much easier to hear the language as it is spoken in French films (though I struggle with some of the idiomatic expressions), and I can participate eagerly in my French Club with the more advanced French speakers. I have ordered all three levels of the Pimsleur French courses through Amazon, and for me, it couldn't be easier. If you're on a budget, it's great to be able to sell the program through Amazon, when you have completed the course, as I have done. I was taking a French conversation course at the same time in college, and I learned much faster with the Pimsleur method. I listen to the CDs on my early morning walks, while I'm on my bicycle, and in the car to and from work - so I hear and speak French about 2 hours daily. I would give the product five stars but Pimsleur doesn't include a readers manual, only a reference guide. I've listened to other French instruction programs, but I kept returning to Pimsleur.
What. Problem is when you have done all the lessons and you want to refresh your memory but you don't want to go through entire 30 minute lessons. Now that I have gone through thr french, italian and hebrew series I might say this is a very slow course and messy course/technique and I'll tell you why. Now, I'm not going to travel to France, so the entire 90 lessons are focused on travelers who need to know how to ask where is some street or some hotel.
The pimsleur technique is based on a lot of repetition so they nag you frequently with words you've learned in previous lessons, that's.well, cool for first timers. First time I heard the Pimsleur Series in french, italian and hebrew I though it was the best invention after the radio. I swear this can be done in one 30-min lesson, they take 10-20 lessons of 30 min each to teach the above.Hey I want to introduce myself, know how to use the verb to be and to have, learn the pronouns, learn the prepositions, some adjectives, where I'm from, what I do, how old am I. With Pimsleur I didn't even learned the french pronouns, how bad is that. And it gets worse, the pronouns, numbers, verbs are all over the place.
You have to wait for the first 10 lessons to learn how to ask where to find a hotel after myriad of repetitions of how to order a beer or a wine and say excuseme. Now I have to start with the basics and find me another course. The first time you are very excited because indeed you are learning and understading the dialogues in a very slow pace. What about people like me who only want to learn it should we go to France sometime. If you want to say, refresh your numbers skills, you just don't have any idea in what lesson they are because they are all over the first 30 lessons.
Now the way they start is by teaching you how to say what do you want to drink or to eat, how to order a beer or a wine in a restaurant, how to say breakfast, to say lunch, to say thank you, to say ok and to say excuseme. Why spending 90 lessons learning where is that street and what to order in a restaurant instead of how to conjugate different verbs and learn particles such prepositions and pronouns.I did the one for french, understood most dialogues until the end of the 90 lessons, went to a party of french people and realized I didn't even know how to introduce myself or how to conjugate the verb to be or the verb to have. Merci.
Unlike some other language courses, Pimsleur doesn't just teach you phrases, it teaches you what each of the words in the phrase mean and rearranges them in several different contexts. It makes the work go faster and I feel like I'm accomplishing two things at once.Some people have complained about the lack of visuals with Pimsleur. The third follows along, just like the first two.The lessons start with the most commonly spoken phrases and subjects, like greeting someone, asking for directions, telling time, and talking about everyday subjects. These lessons have you participating in conversations right from the start. My subscription to Paris Match was interesting enough to keep me reading, sometimes a couple hours per day.
The voices are very clear, you never have a question about what was said. You're actually thinking in the language, even in the early lessons.I've always had this fantasy about learning a some French and then just waking up one morning, suddenly speaking and understanding all, as if by magic. And I can find more time to listen than I can to sit down with a book. I ended up buying the whole first course and then went on the buy the second and third. The lessons are a little under half an hour each, and even a trip to the store is at least 10 minutes each way, so I get through the better part of a lesson. (And to my delight, after logging in there, my "1 click" magically works just like it does here).The other complaint I sometimes read about Pimsleur is that it's expensive.
You aren't just parroting back phrases with mysterious words. I also listen on my iPod often when I'm doing some mindless task. Over the years I've accumulated a drawer full of these.I first met this Pimsleur language courses on a business trip years ago when I needed something interesting to listen to an a 2 hour drive. Have you had the same history of learning a language in the past as I've had. These lessons were different than any other language CD I had listened to in the past. It doesn't feel like a chore.The way I went about learning French I, II and III is to take the CD's along whenever I get into the car. After several lessons I bought the Oxford French Mini dictionary that you can find on amazon. I always thought I was a visual learner, but I found that I learn just fine with the audio.
There are a few words that they go over for pronunciation in a little booklet at the end of the lesson, but most of it is audio. That drawer full of discarded language tapes and CD's that I couldn't use probably added up over time to a lot more than a Pimsleur course. And one lesson builds on the previous, adding more phrases and using words from the last lessons combined with new words. I bought the "teaser" first 8 lessons of Pimsleur French.
One lesson builds on the next and there is lots of repetition so this has worked very well for me. That word builds on other words and phrases and before long you find you don't understand what you thought it meant and the CD's or tapes end up thrown in a drawer never to see the light of day again. Of course, I wanted to also read French in order to practice my language skills. It forces you to think about the way you put words together to form a sentence.
I can't tell you the number of times I've sat in the driveway after returning home to finish a lesson.I try to get through one lesson every day or two. Amazon also carries magazine subscriptions to a couple French magazines and a newspaper which come out weekly. You buy a set of CD's or tapes, listen to the first one or two and find that you can't quite hear the pronunciation of a simple word or phrase. I looked up a few French newspapers online and practiced reading those. It's tiny enough to keep on the side when you're reading a book or magazine, and has over 100,000 words. The French courses gave me the ability to converse with people when we went to France on everyday type things and even more importantly it gave me enough knowledge of the language to build on it. The Pimsleur courses are fun to use and you actually learn something. What has worked for me is to count the number of errors I make and go on to the next lesson when I make 10 or fewer errors in a lesson.
The words were completely clear, repeated several times by male and female voices, and there was never a question of what you were hearing or what it meant. For me, I figure you get what you pay for. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way and you do have to apply yourself to learn, but for me, Pimsleur is the most painless way to learn a language. Some are more difficult and take several repetitions, some are easy and I can comprehend in a couple listens. And amazon.fr is a whole new world in French. I highly recommend it.
I find French III 2nd Ed.LEARN TO SPEAK AND UNDERSTAND FRENCH WITH PIMSLEUR LANGUAGE PROGRAMS the best way to brush up your foreign language. However the subject matters covered could have been broader.
|
